Dithering and doing things half-way are not among the national character flaws that might be pinned on the Chinese. One has the sense that if that country ever gets serious about greening up, it will do it with a rapidity and effectiveness that will make western nations look downright silly.
And, perhaps, they’re already at it with this plan to build the world’s largest high-speed rail network. As of March 31, China has committed $259 billion to the project, and plans to spend nearly a half trillion dollars more in the next three years, boosting the total investment to $730 billion by 2012.
A little context here: The US–a country with a per capita GDP about 16 times that of China–has set rail as a national priority and has committed… $13 billion. Or, about 2 percent as much in China. This, of course, is in a place where it costs a hell of a lot more to get anything done.
Of the Chinese investment, at least $1 billion is going to the German conglomerate Seimens for the purchase 100 high speed train sets. They will be, on average, 16 cars–or 1300 feet–in length, capable of carrying 1000 passengers, and capable of traveling 218 mph. Moreover, they will be running on tracks designed to accommodate that speed. Unlike, say, the Acela.
Ultimately, the Chinese government plans to buy 1000 high speed trains to run on a track network of around 25,000 miles.
Why, oh, why do we have such difficulty approaching serious projects with the required seriousness in this country?
(h/t Overhead Wire — who also gets a nod for our favorite lede of the day: “When China stimulates, it’s with trains.”)
Photo: Xinhua
May 21st, 2009 at 2:24 pm
While I agree that our difficulty with undertaking new projects, and our general propensity for putting things off, is embarrassing at best, and a sign of major national decline at worst, I don’t think it’s fair to compare us to China. China is an authoritarian state. The government can build whatever it wants and spend as much as it wants without answering to anyone. This means that the government can invest in some great things - like HSR - and some debatable things - like giant buildings and monumental structures and highways that are empty and unnecessary. Leaving aside the obvious fact that democracy is preferable to authoritarianism, I’d argue that the Chinese government’s unchallenged free hand when it comes to infrastructure projects is both a blessing and a curse.
May 21st, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Vin,
Well, of course. But a couple of things. First, the US has always been a democracy, and yet we were, until the last twenty or thirty years, capable of completing big projects within a reasonable timeframe.
Second, the Chinese government isn’t unaccountable. They are–but just not through the ballot box. Again, the system is brutal, authoritarian, etc. etc. But it’s not like they can just do whatever they want. The government has to make very careful and high stakes calculations about how they dedicate their resources.
-Jebediah
May 21st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
We don’t seem to have the same problem starting and finishing projects when they are centered around highways, only if cars aren’t involved…
May 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Doing big things quickly is not always for the best. The interstate system got built relatively quickly, but was a disaster for the urban fabric of many cities. China built the 3 Gorges Dam quickly - enough said.
There are 2 conflicting conditions required for a project like HSR that are hard to reconcile - there must be a recognition of the “greater good” that trumps individual greed or local self interest (claiming vast swaths of land through eminent domain), and there must be a disregard for a greater good, or anything but your “own” self interest, that enables you to do bad things in the interest of your project (like claiming vast swaths of land through eminent domain). Put these ingredients in a democratic cocktail with special interest lobbying and political intrigue and you have a recipe for permanent inaction.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
I wrote my thesis on high-speed rail in the United States and one of my conclusions was that we needed a more authoritarian approach to planning in order to achieve anything worth getting excited about. This doesn’t go as far as to say we need to have a communist government with a centralized planning apparatus on par with Beijing, but we need to go back to the approaches of the 50’s and 60’s and dare I say open up a history book and see what Robert Moses’ secrets were. I think we’ve learned a lot since the days of Moses and would not repeat his travesties committed upon New York (ie Cross Bronx Expressway).
I only say this because we are on a precipice for disaster and we need the ability to implement swift and quick changes to how we move people and things around this country. We’ve subjugated planning expertise to a give and take on multi-year EIS statements and or NIMBYism through seemingly never ending comment periods and public meetings. Its time to undo the devolution of planning and move it upwards to the folks who can actually get the plans implemented.
I think before we put any more money towards high-speed rail we need to have a comprehensive national plan for a network (even if it doesn’t connect the various mega-regions). Ray LaHood’s comments on needing a Czar for the midwest just shows how this needs to be a federal endeavor. The federal endeavor taken with the highway system is evidence enough to show how that accomplished the multi-state system that brought us the economic growth of the last half of the 20th century (along with all its externalities).
Coupled with the national plan we need to engage in a serious discussion on implementation and or revising our planning/implementation instruments to better overcome the objections of the few (NIMBY’s). I’d be happy with a very forceful planning/implementation strategy, but others may not be so ready. We need to obviously work out those differences. Without that discussion we’ll have our high-speed rail dreams/wishes/plans continuously subjected to false starts and less than stellar results.
Just so no one thinks I’m totally cold and careless on the community approach to planning I think that is where the process should start, but not keeping going back and forth all the way until the project is complete. If I had it my way we’d have community visioning sessions where we get input from the community on how they would like a system to come through their community, serve their community, etc. Take those ideas and incorporate them into the planning process. From there the plans would laid out by professionals who demonstrate their expertise and somehow get the public to trust them (that is the key that makes my ideas problematic) so that we don’t have to get hung up on never ending threats and law suits. Some of that wishful thinking I know, but it is what I think needs to be accomplished if we don’t want to sit in the shadow of China and their grand infrastructure gems.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:42 pm
just have to point it out:
the US is not, and never has been, a democracy. it was founded as and remains a republic with a democratically (although this is even debatable) elected leadership.
that said, i agree that the executive branch needs to grow some cojones, put their foot down, and make a massive investment in rail infrastructuringinization without kowtowing to auto industry lobbies.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
One thing we are better at is figuring out excuses why things can’t be done. We have the freedom to be wrong.
May 21st, 2009 at 4:53 pm
What T Joey says.
-Jebediah
May 21st, 2009 at 4:58 pm
+! for T Joey.
I also stand corrected: we are a BANANA Republic - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone.
May 21st, 2009 at 5:43 pm
What on earth makes you think we wouldn’t produce more Moses-style travesties? If there’s anything we do better than music, movies and high-speed pizza delivery, it’s large-scale urban development travesties.
We have about a million safeguards in place to keep us from doing small projects right, but if you want to do a big project wrong, it’s smooth sailing.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Hi, while agree on the meaning, if we compare nationwide HSR spending (and not per capita), it would be fair to compare national GDP, not per capita; which is “only” a 4x difference.
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:41 am
[...] The Infrastructurist & Asia [...]
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:53 am
Highways do not ruin cities and so-called “urban” lifestyles.
Consider that healthy downtowns are also ringed by highways; e.g., Boston, NYC, etc. In New Jersey, all of the busiest pedestrian towns are have excellent highway access too; e.g., Ridgewood, Englewood, Palisades Park, etc.
Consider that Canada is also loaded with highways, but without deteriorated downtowns.
For that matter, check out a map of Shanghai.
In fact, American downtowns — already emptied out of all life — are a the focal point of elaborate highway networks and still no one wants to be there.
Look at a map of Indianapolis. Downtown has wide Interstate highways everywhere — but downtown is vacant. Well, you might say, of course! The highways took everyone away! But isn’t it odd that the highways are never used to bring anyone back?
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:15 am
-1 on Bill Nelson. +1 on T Joey. Europe learned long ago that Highways should connect cities but they should not go through them. Their highways end in rings around cities and you have to use regular streets to access the center. Highways here paved over and through neighborhoods and ruined the fabric of the city. You don’t live on a highway, it is a giant scar, a canyon, a divide that is not easy to traverse.
If we dawdle too long the construction cost will only get much more expensive. If we were to face an era of high gas prices the cost to do anything could be utterly crippling. We need to get started on a comprehensive HSR network ASAP.
May 22nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
It helps when you can just boot people from their homes with no remuneration because it’s Good For The State. That’s probably the biggest thing the Chinese have going for them — they don’t give a rat’s ass about the little guy.
Last year, when I was living in Sydney, I went to a lecture by a Chinese professor who was talking about the “new China.” This was a guy who had been educated in America and Australia, had worked there, as well, and was touting how “Westernised” the country was now, and how it was this new frontier. He used examples like this, but seemed rather blase about the Chinese government’s unique view of imminent domain. He seemed to shrug it off, saying, well, that’s progress.
Meanwhile, how many people get a knock on their front door from some Party official saying - OK, you’re moving now. Go.
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 am
I have a question. Where does china buy all their equipment & get the technical expertise to undergo such massive projects? I see a german company is doing $1 billion in business with them. I wonder about the U.S. Since we don’t manufacture anything here anymore, wouldn’t it be nice if we actually did and the Chinese bought stuff from us? Wouldn’t that help the poor economy?
May 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
“Why, oh, why do we have such difficulty approaching serious projects with the required seriousness in this country?”
Because we’re busy spending every dime of discretionary public funding we can raise, then borrowing more than we can actually pay for, to fund a military with a budget larger than the rest of the world combined.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Excellent piece! Just thought I’d give my 2 cents.. +1 T Joey
@ EP3:
“Where does china buy all their equipment & get the technical expertise to undergo such massive projects?”
China does business with experts per se in the field i.e. Siemens for High-speed trains etc. They then sign a agreement with said company and country to share technology which long-term translates to them getting educated in the particular field and then doing it themselves - Siemens are building 100 trains - China wants 1000 so the other 900 will be built in china by chinese workers.
May 22nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
FDR should have federalized the railroad in the 30’s.
we’ve been paying in smog for close to 80 years b/c of this oversight.
May 22nd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
“Nationwide, 280 high-speed trains went into operation; by the end of the year, the number will hit 500. (April 2007)” http://www.gov.cn/english/2007-04/19/content_587844.htm
.
China has started up a lot of hsr, but as commented here, the U.S. is perfectly capable of large projects e.g.:
Boston’s Big Dig
Fixing I-95 in Phila when it almost fell
Invading Iraq to support SUV’s
Millions of parking structures for homeless cars
Massive media effort not to talk about transit…
etc
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“I’d argue that the Chinese government’s unchallenged free hand when it comes to infrastructure projects is both a blessing and a curse.”
A meaningless truism which distracts us from the fact that the U.S. “build roads/drop bombs” policy which is implemented in our name, with our money, and over which we allegedly have some say, is threatening the existence of all life on earth. One would expect someone to react to this post by saying… “gee, in the U.S., people are telling pollsters at a rate of 60% that we want investment in public transit, and it never even gets discussed, never mind funded.”
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Perfect example of the inability to get anything doneThe planning stage takes too long.
Baltimore Red Line
First proposed in 2002, seven years later we’re still at the DEIS stage, the Locally Preferred Alternative is schedule to be out “late this summer”, whatever that means, and the first shovel isn’t supposed to be put into the dirt (based on funding) until late 2012. The line woukl open in 2015, a total of 13 years!
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:44 pm
It’s nice to see that in the PRC the government is investing several hundred billion dollars to improve China’s transportation infrastructure - including the railways. This is indeed a step in the right direction. At least it will help integrate well the more distant regions of China into the national economy and society.
However, there is a political dimension to all this, believe it or not. Most of the senior leadership in the Chinese Communist Party is over the age of 70; many of them worked personally under Chrs. Mao Zedong & Deng Xiaoping. I am sure they want to leave behind an undeniably grand legacy before they pass away. If they can be remembered as the generation that laid the foundations for China’s (economic) greatness, especially after the “Century of Shame”, the people will remember them every time they go to offer incense at the ancestral altars.
And, as all of us know, the desire for special recognition is an integral part of human nature.
In America’s case, a HSR network is imperative to maintain economic, social, and political integrity on a national level - especially since demand from China and India for Persian Gulf and South American petroleum is projected to rise sharply over the next few years. Include the rising demand in China & India for private automobiles and other goodies that Americans have long taken for granted and one can conclude that, on top of needing an efficient and ample national rail network, most Americans will have to learn how to make do without cars. Hard to do when most US cities have been designed around happy motoring and to get to your job (or anywhere else) and back you almost always need a car. Once oil reserves begin to shrink, a big can of worms will be opened and the lack of available petroleum Stateside will make daily life radically different from what we know currently.
In the case of transport of goods by truck, a good rail network will be imperative; since oil will become scarce, so will diesel. And for want of diesel, trucks will not move as often as they do now and stuff like foodstuffs and auto parts will not make it to market. (In the case of food, shortages at the Costco or Winn-Dixie would be unthinkable.) With an ample rail network to serve as the backbone of national heavy terrestrial transportation, goods will make it to market like so, just a tad slower. Lack of diesel will not be much of a problem; with the right engine any train will be able to run on a variety of fuels. For instance, a diesel-electric, when properly designed, can run on biodiesel or even waste veggie oil. Or we can even bring back the old steam engine and redesign it to run on present-day technology. In any case, an engine + transmission that can produce the most work per HP is most desirable.
For China and India to develop their grand-scale infrastructure they will need all the oil and raw materials they can get. Add American demand to the fray and it gets yet more complicated. However, since China and India have the money to buy the required commodities in super-bulk and America does not, US infrastructure upgrades will pretty much get the short end of the stick - especially if we rely on foreign raw materials to get things done.
If, instead of spending so much on military expenditures and lobbyists’ pork rind, the re-establishment of industrial capacity and upgrade of transportation infrastructure were emphasized and generously funded, DC would’ve been in a position to help America get out of the current recession faster than usual; in a time when the currency value falls exporting can become highly profitable - just ask Toyota. GM and other US manufacturers could take advantage of the current US dollar devaluation to export aggressively and rebound from the current slump. With efficient means of getting raw materials and finished parts from A to B, it goes along even faster and export on a large scale becomes feasible. Also, GM and the rest of Detroit could’ve gotten a new lease on life if they decided beforehand to switch from automotive production to production of railway equipment. Investing in the upgrade of the current US railway system and the potential construction of a HSR network would’ve resulted in a nice, fat government contract for GM and the rest of Detroit. Then Chapter 11 would be a non-issue.
An HSR network would have to be built separately from the current US rail network, since ye olde rail stock is not designed for trains traveling above 65 MPH.
Now, let’s hope that DC is willing to put some serious money into an HSR network. I for one would be willing to pay extra taxes to see an upgraded and revlitalized national rail network + HSR network. (A company like Siemens or Westinghouse won’t do it for peanuts!) I guess most US corporations saw the Feds’ neglect of US transport infrastructure and decided that they would be better off transferring their industrial and financial assets overseas.
May 25th, 2009 at 12:44 am
“US has always been a democracy”
As pointed out above, I must reiterate. The US is a Republic and not a Democracy. IT NEVER was. The forefathers knew that a Democracy led to nothing but special interest catastrophes, which is about what we have today. Gridlock of special interests.
If you want to look at the period of time when the US made progress, stop thinking of Robert Moses and think about hte REAL movers. Carnegie, Vanderbilt, and others. We’d have NOTHING in regards to railroads and a country of any scale or power if it wasn’t for them. On that note take a quick reflection of reality before spouting off the greatness of China’s rail system.
Yeah, they’re working on it, but here’s some tidbits for ya.
We have 21,000+ miles of passenger rail. We aren’t reliant on this for economic expansion (even though I do think we should be)
They don’t have anywhere near that many. However they plan on changing that and will have almost 4000+ miles of it within the next decade. This will make a huge impact.
We have over 100k miles of main line freight tracks that are heavily used by extremely efficient freight movements.
China has just over 47k miles of main line freight. They spend way more per capita to send anything anywhere in their country. They don’t expect to surpass our freight rail system for another 10 years, and it isn’t expected they’ll surpass our freight system for another 30 or more even if they dramatically accelerate their rail construction. Overall, to put it simply, their system isn’t going to catch up with ours for another 20-30 years and ours has been neglected for 50+ years.
I’m all for us jumping back into rail expansion, but we can’t do it like they do or we’ll never keep up. Their has to be active motive by private citizens and the private sector in order for real expansion to occur. This country had over 230k miles of rail at one point, over 99% of it was built by private industry, which since has been undercut by subsidy and intervention from our own Government, leaving us in a competitive quandary against places like Indian and China, that are leaning more and more toward opening their markets up while we open and then continue to drastically restrict or regulate our markets.
We need to expand, but we better do it right or we aren’t going to get the pay off. It’s simply a case of learn from history, or we’re most likely doomed to repeat something stupid.
May 25th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Because we have conservatives.
SATSQ
June 2nd, 2009 at 9:42 pm
“Meanwhile, how many people get a knock on their front door from some Party official saying - OK, you’re moving now. Go.” — I have to suggest you go liba.com, which is a Chinese BBS website regarding relocation, reconstruction. Based on the information given by ordinary people write on the BBS, 99.99% of people living in Shanghai, CHINA, hopes government relocate them so they would be payed millions and millions. There is a Chinese saying now: Want to be rich, wait for dismantling. Just figure out by yourself.
One example, one guy living in Shanghai, government house, 15 square meters, when the government want to relocate him, he ask for 100 million RMB, about 15 million USD.
Another example, my wife’s uncle recently get relocated for Metro project, normally those public project does not pay very well, still he get 3 million RMB (about half a million USD) and 3 new apartments in exchange for his 200 square feet old house which he rent from the government.
Of course Chinese people always talk about human rights abuse, abuse of what? I always ask them. The government’s zero tolerance of homeless and fair education system??
July 9th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
[...] and a dedication of resources to expanding and improving rail and transit on a scale similar to China and Spain–which is to say [...]
July 26th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Don’t we know that Germany, France, Japan, Spain, Begium, England, Taiwan all have HSR systems, and some of them was built in the 21 century and these countries are all democracies. The reason that China will have a gigantic HSR system is because China is huge, the size of the entire Europe and slightly larger than the US. So when it decides to have a HSR for the country, it will be big. So a democractic government is not the reason that we can not get it done, it is because of the politics of this country is so controlled by special interest groups. The reason that LA did not have a subway or rail system for the city is because GM did not want it, so it will sell more cars with the freeway systems and the oil companies can sell more Gas. We can not have a national gun control law even after we have the assainations of JFK, MLK, RFK, Reagan and the recent Virginia massacre in the name of the 2nd amendament but is actually the gun lobby. US will not see a national HSR system in the 21 century.
July 30th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
[...] and any sane profit-minded company wants to be where the action is. A sense of proportion: China has made a $730 billion commitment to fast passenger rail, compared to $13 billion in the [...]
August 1st, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Stop with this democracy crap. Only ideologues (who probably read just one book) examine everything through a political or a moral lens. How about looking at this pragmatically? What about the little things like leadership, vision, planning, execution, favorable economic returns, and oh yeah, the ability to sacrifice short-term benefits and minority interests for the long term gain and the greater good? Is it possible that these little things better account for success in infrastructure development than say, the degree of freedom-lovingness or god-fearingness?
All the narratives of freedom vs. oppression, evil vs. good, democracy vs. authoritarianism are nothing but mental masturbation, perverted excuses for our infracstructure-related failures, or cynical spins to turn a genuine negative (our paralyzing inaction) into a PR-positive (the need for democratic consultations with all parties involved).
Sigh… We are beginning to sound like the Indians (from India), who use democracy to explain away every failure. Oh no, we can’t build this because we are a democracy. What, a subway? Subways are for commies! Bigger airports? Pffff, only dictatorships care about size.
Our budget overruns are just a democracy-tax; deadlines are just best democratic estimates; indecision is just an exercise of the freedom to agree to disagree. Oh, certainly do not mind the endless parade of lawsuits brought by money-grubbing lawyers who supposedly represent the interests of those whose lives are about to be “ruined” by a HSR project because these lawsuits are a sign of our mature democracy and our unbridled freedom to pursue self-interest above collective responsibility. Yep, you heard it right, collective responsibility is just commie talk; self-interest is the American way.
Let China build! The more China builds, the less free it becomes. America will not follow China into sacrificing freedom for good infrastructure! Why build roads, bridges, HSR, airports, etc. when we already have FREEDOM and LIBERTY?!
August 8th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I think this would be probably a relevant addition to this conversation. Apart from the huge investments, the Chinese are showing an unparalleled interest in learning from others around the world. Now, they are hosting a conference “China High-Speed Railway Summit” starting September 23-25 in Beijing. For those interested, you can learn more (and don’t forget to checkout the awesome map of the Chinese rail network) and from the key Figures published below.
http://www.chinadecisionmakers.com/rail/
I wonder why the US has not shown any interest in convening a summit on HSR (bring all players, especially the different political camps that are posing a stumbling block). I think the media would be better off encouraging the Government to host a summit of this kind instead of bashing the President for hosting a “beer summit”..
———————————————————————
Key Figures of China’s High-speed Railway
The Mid-Long Term Plan of Railway Network had been adjusted in 2009 that the planned high-speed mileage will be increased from 12, 000 km to 16, 000 km;
Up to February 2009, the mileage of new built in the approved railway projects had reached 23, 000 km, with over RMB2 trillion (about US$ 293 billion) investment scale involved;
By 2010, 30,000 km railways in China will be covered by GSM-R, and 70,000 km more will be added by 2020;
An official stimulus package estimated at RMB 3.5 billion is going to be spent in the coming three years for railway investment
What Makes China High-Speed Railway Summit 2009 a Must-Attend Event
China’s most foresighted railway event committed to enlighten you on national determination to promote the peaceful utilization of high-speed railway to tackle economy decline
Presenting the entire bandwidth of high-speed plan in the expanding China market under one roof, recognizing new high-speed railway projects and updated technologies
Gathering all the key shareholders, from the international agencies, local governments to leading industrial practitioners and academia
In-depth analysis and outlook on the trends of public-private-partnership and advanced operational modes
A value-added place to understand China’s policy framework and seek potential development opportunities in the most dynamic and special railway market
Plenty of networking sessions designed to maximize your time at the event and provide you the best atmosphere to meet movers and shakers from China and the international railway arena
August 16th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
“An official stimulus package estimated at RMB 3.5 billion is going to be spent in the coming three years for railway investment”
There is a typo there: the RMB 3.5 billion should be RMB 3.5 trillion, which is pretty obvious.
August 26th, 2009 at 6:04 am
Exciting Facts of the China Railway Innovation Summit 2009:
J Mapping out the Investments Plans of Chinese Railways in Recent Years
J Promotion Functions of International Financial Crisis on the Investments in Chinese Railways
J New lines, high speed rail and electrification Signaling / technology innovation
J The innovation platform of CRH-2 rolling stock
J Evolution and advancement of technology & equipment from leading suppliers
J On-site visit to CSR Changchun Railway Vehicle Co., Ltd. which rolled out China’s first domestically made 350 km/h CRH3 high-speed train
J 200+ participants from global railway fraternity including railway operators, rail vehicle manufacturers, engineering & construction, equipment & technology suppliers, IT software providers, consultancy, investment banks, securities, insurance, legal & accounting firms, etc.
Speakers under prior consideration :
Beijing-Shanghai High-speed Railway Co., Ltd.
CSR Sifang Locomotive and Rolling Stock Industry (Group) Corporation
Jean-Pierre Loubinoux, Chairman & CEO, SNCF International
Ludwig Boelkow, Head of International Business Development, Deutsche Bahn AG
Kim Chan, General Manager, Alstom Transport China
Mr. Zhengjian, Dean, The Research Institute of Economic Scheme of MOR
Sig Rogich, Spokesman, California High Speed Railway Corporation
Helmut Gehn, GM, Transrapid
Lorenzo Simonelli, President & CEO, GE Transportation
Luciano Libanori, Resident Manager, Ansaldo STS
The German High-Speed Initiative
November 20th, 2009 at 2:31 am
[...] advantage of the recession to pursue a reconstruction of its transportation networks. And with hundreds of billions of dollars slated for construction of new high-speed railways, China’s future increasingly seems to be one that will be defined [...]