Posted on Friday October 23rd by Alex Lessard-Pilon | 485
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- Community leaders in LA are worried that new HSR lines will ruin their dream of revitalizing the LA River, which is made out of concrete. They want open spaces and more wildlife by the river. Admirable goals all around; the city needs get its priorities in order. (LATimes)
- Global spending on trains, tracks and equipment will be $180 billion this year — a blessing for big companies like Siemens that have been otherwise hammered by the recession. And the worldwide HSR boom is only gathering momentum… (WSJ - Google headline for full text)
- The general consensus at an HSR conference is that the $8 billion for rail in the stimulus bill is a joke. A single line from Philly to Pittsburg would cost $20-25 billion, and a Texas congressman says a serious national network would be about $600 billion. Eek! (NYTimes)
- Hong Kong is jumping on the HSR bandwagon: officials approved an $8.4 billion link with mainland China. It’s partly a political move–”integration with the mainland” is at stake–and is set to carry 99,000 passengers daily once complete in 2015. (AFP)
- Speaking of of integrating with the mainland…the Canadians are bolstering their campaign to build an HSR link from New York to Montreal. At least they’ve mastered the useless cliche: “Where there’s a will, there’s a way,” says a Quebecois official. (Press Republican)
- A concerned citizen writes a Louisiana paper criticizing Governor Jindal’s decision to nix the New Orleans-Baton Rouge rail link with the (possibly dubious) argument that the route would make it easier to evacuate the poor when hurricanes strike. (2TheAdvocate)
- In Menlo Park and Palo Alto, NIMBYism masquerades as environmentalism and, well, a weird form of corporate entitlement and contract law. There are some legitimate concerns, but the solutions proposed so far are downright terrible. (Wired)
- Some unorthodox, conceptual HSR ideas: Tubular Rail, a single rigid train unit that passes through elevated support rings “like threat through a series of needles” (no tracks!), and another that would take cars off highways and load them onto solar-powered maglev trains (bootleg rendering above). (Las Vegas Sun)
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm
$600 billion sounds about right. And it will be European companies saying: “Thank you America. Thank you China. You have a good day.”
October 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 pm
The cost to build the interstate highway network would be about one trillion in today’s dollars.
So $600 billion is pretty cheap in comparison. It is less than the amount of money Congress gave away to the banks. It is less than what we have spent in Iraq.
October 24th, 2009 at 5:32 am
These dream machine ideas are just that! ‘Dreams’! Maybe in another 100 years something may come along like them, but all they are doing right now is clouding the issue! It has been proved to me beyond doubt, that Maglev Transport does work and is here and now! A successful invention like the Transrapid Maglev system as used in Shanghai can’t be dis-invented. We should embrace it as a great development in transport technology. Wheels on rails have served us well, but it’s time to move on to better, safer and faster things! You know it makes sense!
October 24th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Sean, the government didn’t give away money to banks, it bought their sketchy loans, or lent them money, both of which are recoverable (and, in some cases, have been recovered at a profit). It was taking on risk, not just writing the money off or giving it away. And $600 billion is a big number however you spin it. I think the key is to focus on one part at a time. Once people can see an example line, they can judge for themselves whether they think the high price tag is worth it.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Who said that 17,000 miles of high-speed rail service would cost $600 billion? Do you believe that? Calculate a mile of HSR track at between $50 and $80 million, and remember that includes everything, including rolling stock,stations, bridges, tunnels, viaducts,etc. not just the rails. So how much does that come to for 17,000? (Answer is in the back of the book.)
Now, if you read the writings of Prof. Bent Flyvbjerg, who has done a great deal of research on rail and other mega-infrastructure projects, you will discover what many of us know already — cost overruns. Boston Big Dig? From $2 billion before they started, to $22billion including interest, when they completed the job.
California’s high-speed train, now budgeted at $45 billion, was only $30 billion a few years ago. Figure the costs to at least double by the time they have completed the 800 miles, fifteen years from now, $90 billion and more.
I suggest that the proposed national HSR network will pencil out at to at least $1 and perhaps as much as $2 TRILLION dollars. If you find that ridiculous, you haven’t done your homework.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Philly to Pittsburg for $20B? Pretty cheap for a coast-to-coast line.
[what I am saying is that it is not 1898, and Pittsburgh has had its h back since 1911]
October 25th, 2009 at 1:19 am
@ Martin Engel:
17 000 miles of HSR track for $ 600 Billion, thats $ 35 million per mile, the same as the Korean HSR Costs. Its also close to the Taiwanese $ 37 Million per km cost, and remember the majority of The Taiwan system runs elevated. A very reasonable estimate. Your $ 2 Trillion number can be used as the final final reviewed cost estimate, you know, should shit get completely out of hand.
The most expensive costs per KM to date, on any HSR system, anywhere in the world, is the $ 74 million per km reached in the UK. The USA is a big place and suggesting that the costs of building a HSR system here runs between $ 50 million and $ 80 million are a bit steep. Seeing as no new system has been built here in the good ol’ USA and there’s a world full of countries that have said systems, those costs could be greatly reduced.
BTW, France build/t their lines for between $ 4 million - $ 10 million per Km, Spain $ 10 Million per Km, Belgium & Germany $ 15 Million per Km. The PDF below has some figures…
http://www.jrtr.net/jrtr40/pdf/f22_ard.pdf
Your Figures are a bit much, I’d say. Again they’re all estimates, In construction you don’t know how much it costs until its built.
The Big Dig was a huge cock up from the start. Good Idea, bad planning, design, implementation, management , god you name it, if it was wrong it had to do with the big dig. It has, for the most part succeeded in its goal.
The $ 2 Billion cost you mention is a 1982 Estimate, thats $ 6 Billion in 2006 money. The eventual 2007 Cost came to $ 14.6 Billion, thats $ 8 Billion in 1982 money.(There is $ 7 Billion in interest of course)
Considering the Project scope and the problems that were the order of the day, they did a fair job of not sending the costs any higher. The money will be recouped by 2038 no biggie.
What a project like the Big Dig does is teach lessons that can be put to good use in the future. Whether there will be someone actually taking heed is a different story all together.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:43 am
Nimby Engel..your words..So at what point does the common good of society over rule the self centered type of people like you? YOUR condo is next to the 140 year old railroad..your not THAT old so you knew what you were doing buying that property.Now YOU might be dead in 15 years but the rest of us get to live well into the 21 century..with the projected population increase..unless we neuter males there will be 45-million people..airports are land locked space is needed for future long haul flights. Movement and business will need something just as proposed by CAHSR This is not SiFi its used around the world as a quality lifestyle for people to enjoy . Nov 4 2008..your type lost Prop1A passed
October 26th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Re : “Tubular Rail”
A similar system is mentioned in “Starman Jones” (Robert A. Heinlein, 1953). He also mentioned a tunnel under S.F.Bay in “Citizen of the Galaxy” (1957). FYI - RAH has conceptual credit for the waldo (remote manipulator) and the waterbed.