Comments on: Will Florida Be America’s Shining Example That 21st Century Rail Can Work?

By: Joe Melnick

Joe Melnick — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:38:43 +0000

That 200 grand spread in Albany will be 500K within a year with the avalanche of New Yorkers descending on the town with dollar signs in their eyes. It may not be ’sprawl’ but it could be something worse, destroying the character and spirit of smaller towns.

I used to live in Charlottesville VA and lived in fear of a high-speed rail link to DC, which would have ruined the town and filled it with absentee owners with no connection to the social fabric, jacking up real estate prices and property taxes. Two hours by car was just the right distance to keep them out.

Actually, I can’t think of anything worse for Virginia than fast, efficient links to DC…

By: Danny

Danny — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:02 +0000

It would be difficult for various reasons, but first and foremost is the law. It is only legal to use parking meters as a form of parking regulation. It is illegal to use them for revenue generation.

While this is a legitimate parking regulation issue, it would be very difficult for a city to defend that in court because price regulation looks too similar to revenue generation. We would need to change the law to allow it.

By: Cap'n Transit

Cap'n Transit — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:51:16 +0000

Of course some people love it, Danny. You misunderstood my quantifier; I was saying that the only kind of sprawl that anyone complains about - as sprawl, at least - is the car-dependent kind.

I’m glad we agree on the value of market parking pricing. Now how can we get that implemented at the Albany train station?

By: admin

admin — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:38:31 +0000

Oh boy. Really? Commuting from Albany to NYC in a half hour is “sprawl”?

Grasping, my friends.

By: Danny

Danny — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:34:12 +0000

I don’t agree in that people only mind car dependent sprawl. Some people do…and some people love it and think its the only way to do it.

However, I do agree with you on how to curb car dependence. Market pricing of parking will ultimately force higher densities and transit dependence, because the real estate required for a car is so much more useful in a different form. Price it according to the opportunity cost of providing that parking, and whammo, you get high densities.

By: Cap'n Transit

Cap'n Transit — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:10:05 +0000

Danny, maybe it’s sprawl and maybe it ain’t, but nobody minds miles of six-story apartment buildings. The only sprawl that anyone minds is the car-dependent kind, and the way to curb that is to not provide abundant cheap parking.

By: Danny

Danny — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:42:12 +0000

Oh yeah, this is a good history of the purpose of the NYC subway, which originally was to encourage sprawl.

http://www.scrivener.net/2004/10/first-100-years-of-new-york-city.html

By: Danny

Danny — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:41:00 +0000

So sprawl only exists if you move out of the city and use your car to get to work :::rolls eyes::: Redefinition is completely disingenuous.

The truth is, rail systems induce sprawl in exactly the same ways as highways: They enable you to live further from your job. In fact, the New York Subway System was originally conceived as a way to escape the horrible and toxic urban density at that time, which contributed to poor health and living conditions.

You might conclude that rail results in a healthier, more sustainable sprawl. You might conclude that the rail system will even out population densities which is a better option than the exponential decline in population density as you move away from the CBD. You might be able to conclude that certain densities are not attainable without a high capacity rail system. But you can’t conclude that it is not sprawl without being a liar.

By: Galls

Galls — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:20:42 +0000

Eric, sprawl is a much more localized effect than regional rail could ever be linked to. In fact you could expect an increase in density around the Albany station, a sprawl mitigating factor. A commuting population from one city to another city is not sprawl, not very efficient but not sprawl.

By: Eric F

Eric F — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:43:15 +0000

Imagine if workers could get from Albany to the Manhattan CBD in 30 minutes. A 2 bedroom apartment in Manhattan runs about a million dollars. You can buy a house in Albany for less than 200 grand. One could live 30 minutes from the Albany train station by car, and have a typical NYC suburban one-hour commute, perhaps from a nice 2 acre spread in Scotia. In other words, wouldn’t the rail link serve to create the exact sprawl that you purport to be against?

By: Danny

Danny — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:24:06 +0000

Jeb, you made a mistake about the merits of the Chinese.

You see, the reason why the Chinese are building HSR megaprojects like crazy men is that their current systems are [i]already running above rated capacity[/i]. In other words, they already had the ridership to make HSR profitable, and they have waited until now to implement it. They are slow to implement…not fast.

If China had train ridership levels similar to the US, you can bet that they wouldn’t be building HSR. In fact, you don’t have to bet. EVERY SINGLE CORRIDOR that is being built to HSR standards in China already had ridership levels to sustain it.

By: mSkehan

mSkehan — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:24:35 +0000

Damn, spotted a typo.
Please change not to now on the 7th line. Thanks

By: mSkehan

mSkehan — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:21:26 +0000

2.5 Bil. to go 86 miles, with no state support for capital or operations sure sounds ‘iffy’ to me. Other corridors are putting ’skin in the game’ up front, with committments to continue operational support, such as WA-OR’s Cascade Corridor, where local investment has exceeded 1 Bil. to date. Our Talgo tilt trains are capable of 125 mph with track and signal upgrades. We’ve built or refurbished nearly all the rail stations along the 425 mile route which not carries more than twice as many passengers between SEA-PDX than the airlines.
While I support all HSR in general, it seems pre-mature or self-fulfilling to showcase such a short line, mimicking I-4 as the nations poster child for HSR done right.
Mike Skehan, All Aboard Washington

By: Daniel Charles Assael

Daniel Charles Assael — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:31:22 +0000

The Imfrastructurist is delicious. Jebediah Reed serves up a comprehensive analytic soup of optimistic idealism and pragmatic realism with a dash of salty language. Now if only the obstructionists would get out of the bitchin’ kitchen, and let the Infrastuctionists get cookin’.