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	<title>Comments on: Outsmarted by the Smart Grid?</title>
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	<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/</link>
	<description>America Under Construction</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Episode 8 Show Notes and Discussion &#171; JoshPenner.com</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-9599</link>
		<dc:creator>Episode 8 Show Notes and Discussion &#171; JoshPenner.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-9599</guid>
		<description>[...] Realities of power generation/storage/consumption [...]

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Realities of power generation/storage/consumption [...]</p>
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		<title>By: grover</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>grover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-448</guid>
		<description>@ Kimmo:

Which "Chinese" do you know? The Chinese I know and live among keep the air conditioning on full strength and at freezing temperatures. They use inefficient AC curtains - a strong blast of air - at the entrance of retail shops rather than using automatic doors.

The Chinese word for AC literally means "cold air" and most people over here have taken that to heart. Rather than conditioning the air, they make it so cold that office workers leave sweaters &amp; jackets in the office year round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kimmo:</p>
<p>Which &#8220;Chinese&#8221; do you know? The Chinese I know and live among keep the air conditioning on full strength and at freezing temperatures. They use inefficient AC curtains - a strong blast of air - at the entrance of retail shops rather than using automatic doors.</p>
<p>The Chinese word for AC literally means &#8220;cold air&#8221; and most people over here have taken that to heart. Rather than conditioning the air, they make it so cold that office workers leave sweaters &amp; jackets in the office year round.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-395</guid>
		<description>How many more times will I hear "peak oil is now" before it really happens?  People have been making that claim since before I was born.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many more times will I hear &#8220;peak oil is now&#8221; before it really happens?  People have been making that claim since before I was born.</p>
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		<title>By: Anarchoblogs in English &#187; &#187; William Tucker debunks the notion that a &#8220;smart grid&#8221; will save America</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Anarchoblogs in English &#187; &#187; William Tucker debunks the notion that a &#8220;smart grid&#8221; will save America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-382</guid>
		<description>[...] Tucker at The Infrastructurist (perhaps my new favorite blog) has an article up in which he debunks the myth that the "smart grid" [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tucker at The Infrastructurist (perhaps my new favorite blog) has an article up in which he debunks the myth that the &#8220;smart grid&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Market Anarchist Blogs &#187; &#187; William Tucker debunks the notion that a &#8220;smart grid&#8221; will save America</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>Market Anarchist Blogs &#187; &#187; William Tucker debunks the notion that a &#8220;smart grid&#8221; will save America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-381</guid>
		<description>[...] Tucker at The Infrastructurist (perhaps my new favorite blog) has an article up in which he debunks the myth that the "smart grid" [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tucker at The Infrastructurist (perhaps my new favorite blog) has an article up in which he debunks the myth that the &#8220;smart grid&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: FT.com &#124; FT Energy Source &#124; The Smart Grid outsmarted?</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>FT.com &#124; FT Energy Source &#124; The Smart Grid outsmarted?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-212</guid>
		<description>[...] has a piece by energy writer William Tucker on the &#8216;Smart Grid&#8217; and its representation in popular culture - namely by GE, which has been running a striking [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has a piece by energy writer William Tucker on the &#8216;Smart Grid&#8217; and its representation in popular culture - namely by GE, which has been running a striking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford J. Wirth, Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford J. Wirth, Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 02:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-206</guid>
		<description>The North American power grid is the Achilles heel, and declining oil production will undermine the grid.

Global crude oil production peaked in 2008.

The media, governments, world leaders, and public should focus on this issue.

Global crude oil production had been rising briskly until 2004, then plateaued for four years. Because oil producers were extracting at maximum effort to profit from high oil prices, this plateau is a clear indication of Peak Oil.

Then in August and September of 2008 while oil prices were still very high, global crude oil production fell nearly one million barrels per day, clear evidence of Peak Oil (See Rembrandt Koppelaar, Editor of "Oil Watch Monthly," December 2008, page 1) http://www.peakoil.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/2008_december_oilwatch_monthly.pdf. 
	
Peak Oil is now.

Credit for accurate Peak Oil predictions (within a few years) goes to the following (projected year for peak given in parentheses):

* Association for the Study of Peak Oil (2007)

* Rembrandt Koppelaar, Editor of “Oil Watch Monthly” (2008)

* Tony Eriksen, Oil stock analyst; Samuel Foucher, oil analyst; and Stuart Staniford, Physicist [Wikipedia Oil Megaprojects] (2008)

* Matthew Simmons, Energy investment banker, (2007)

* T. Boone Pickens, Oil and gas investor (2007)

* U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (2005)

* Kenneth S. Deffeyes, Princeton professor and retired shell geologist (2005)

* Sam Sam Bakhtiari, Retired Iranian National Oil Company geologist (2005)

* Chris Skrebowski, Editor of “Petroleum Review” (2010)

* Sadad Al Husseini, former head of production and exploration, Saudi Aramco (2008)

* Energy Watch Group in Germany (2006)

* Fredrik Robelius, Oil analyst and author of "Giant Oil Fields" (2008 to 2018)

Oil production will now begin to decline terminally.

 Within a year or two, it is likely that oil prices will skyrocket as supply falls below demand. OPEC cuts could exacerbate the gap between supply and demand and drive prices even higher.

Independent studies indicate that global crude oil production will now decline from 74 million barrels per day to 60 million barrels per day by 2015. During the same time, demand will increase. Oil supplies will be even tighter for the U.S. As oil producing nations consume more and more oil domestically they will export less and less. Because demand is high in China, India, the Middle East, and other oil producing nations, once global oil production begins to decline, demand will always be higher than supply. And since the U.S. represents one fourth of global oil demand, whatever oil we conserve will be consumed elsewhere. Thus, conservation in the U.S. will not slow oil depletion rates significantly.

Alternatives will not even begin to fill the gap. There is no plan nor capital for a so-called electric economy. And most alternatives yield electric power, but we need liquid fuels for tractors/combines, 18 wheel trucks, trains, ships, and mining equipment. The independent scientists of the Energy Watch Group conclude in a 2007 report titled: “Peak Oil Could Trigger Meltdown of Society:”

"By 2020, and even more by 2030, global oil supply will be dramatically lower. This will create a supply gap which can hardly be closed by growing contributions from other fossil, nuclear or alternative energy sources in this time frame." 

With increasing costs for gasoline and diesel, along with declining taxes and declining gasoline tax revenues, states and local governments will eventually have to cut staff and curtail highway maintenance. Eventually, gasoline stations will close, and state and local highway workers won’t be able to get to work. We are facing the collapse of the highways that depend on diesel and gasoline powered trucks for bridge maintenance, culvert cleaning to avoid road washouts, snow plowing, and roadbed and surface repair. When the highways fail, so will the power grid, as highways carry the parts, large transformers, steel for pylons, and high tension cables from great distances. With the highways out, there will be no food coming from far away, and without the power grid virtually nothing modern works, including home heating, pumping of gasoline and diesel, airports, communications, and automated building systems. 

Documented here: 
http://www.peakoilassociates.com/POAnalysis.html
http://survivingpeakoil.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The North American power grid is the Achilles heel, and declining oil production will undermine the grid.</p>
<p>Global crude oil production peaked in 2008.</p>
<p>The media, governments, world leaders, and public should focus on this issue.</p>
<p>Global crude oil production had been rising briskly until 2004, then plateaued for four years. Because oil producers were extracting at maximum effort to profit from high oil prices, this plateau is a clear indication of Peak Oil.</p>
<p>Then in August and September of 2008 while oil prices were still very high, global crude oil production fell nearly one million barrels per day, clear evidence of Peak Oil (See Rembrandt Koppelaar, Editor of &#8220;Oil Watch Monthly,&#8221; December 2008, page 1) <a href="http://www.peakoil.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/2008_december_oilwatch_monthly.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.peakoil.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/2008_december_oilwatch_monthly.pdf</a>. </p>
<p>Peak Oil is now.</p>
<p>Credit for accurate Peak Oil predictions (within a few years) goes to the following (projected year for peak given in parentheses):</p>
<p>* Association for the Study of Peak Oil (2007)</p>
<p>* Rembrandt Koppelaar, Editor of “Oil Watch Monthly” (2008)</p>
<p>* Tony Eriksen, Oil stock analyst; Samuel Foucher, oil analyst; and Stuart Staniford, Physicist [Wikipedia Oil Megaprojects] (2008)</p>
<p>* Matthew Simmons, Energy investment banker, (2007)</p>
<p>* T. Boone Pickens, Oil and gas investor (2007)</p>
<p>* U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (2005)</p>
<p>* Kenneth S. Deffeyes, Princeton professor and retired shell geologist (2005)</p>
<p>* Sam Sam Bakhtiari, Retired Iranian National Oil Company geologist (2005)</p>
<p>* Chris Skrebowski, Editor of “Petroleum Review” (2010)</p>
<p>* Sadad Al Husseini, former head of production and exploration, Saudi Aramco (2008)</p>
<p>* Energy Watch Group in Germany (2006)</p>
<p>* Fredrik Robelius, Oil analyst and author of &#8220;Giant Oil Fields&#8221; (2008 to 2018)</p>
<p>Oil production will now begin to decline terminally.</p>
<p> Within a year or two, it is likely that oil prices will skyrocket as supply falls below demand. OPEC cuts could exacerbate the gap between supply and demand and drive prices even higher.</p>
<p>Independent studies indicate that global crude oil production will now decline from 74 million barrels per day to 60 million barrels per day by 2015. During the same time, demand will increase. Oil supplies will be even tighter for the U.S. As oil producing nations consume more and more oil domestically they will export less and less. Because demand is high in China, India, the Middle East, and other oil producing nations, once global oil production begins to decline, demand will always be higher than supply. And since the U.S. represents one fourth of global oil demand, whatever oil we conserve will be consumed elsewhere. Thus, conservation in the U.S. will not slow oil depletion rates significantly.</p>
<p>Alternatives will not even begin to fill the gap. There is no plan nor capital for a so-called electric economy. And most alternatives yield electric power, but we need liquid fuels for tractors/combines, 18 wheel trucks, trains, ships, and mining equipment. The independent scientists of the Energy Watch Group conclude in a 2007 report titled: “Peak Oil Could Trigger Meltdown of Society:”</p>
<p>&#8220;By 2020, and even more by 2030, global oil supply will be dramatically lower. This will create a supply gap which can hardly be closed by growing contributions from other fossil, nuclear or alternative energy sources in this time frame.&#8221; </p>
<p>With increasing costs for gasoline and diesel, along with declining taxes and declining gasoline tax revenues, states and local governments will eventually have to cut staff and curtail highway maintenance. Eventually, gasoline stations will close, and state and local highway workers won’t be able to get to work. We are facing the collapse of the highways that depend on diesel and gasoline powered trucks for bridge maintenance, culvert cleaning to avoid road washouts, snow plowing, and roadbed and surface repair. When the highways fail, so will the power grid, as highways carry the parts, large transformers, steel for pylons, and high tension cables from great distances. With the highways out, there will be no food coming from far away, and without the power grid virtually nothing modern works, including home heating, pumping of gasoline and diesel, airports, communications, and automated building systems. </p>
<p>Documented here:<br />
<a href="http://www.peakoilassociates.com/POAnalysis.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.peakoilassociates.com/POAnalysis.html</a><br />
<a href="http://survivingpeakoil.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://survivingpeakoil.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kimmo</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-197</guid>
		<description>Air Conditioning is simple to do. 

The Chinese make ice at night using the cool night air, so the heat pump doesn't have to work so hard. This is insulated and then when cooling is required in the afternoon, the cooling circuit uses this to cool the building. THIS IS REAL BASIC STUFF if you think about it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Air Conditioning is simple to do. </p>
<p>The Chinese make ice at night using the cool night air, so the heat pump doesn&#8217;t have to work so hard. This is insulated and then when cooling is required in the afternoon, the cooling circuit uses this to cool the building. THIS IS REAL BASIC STUFF if you think about it!</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Fiskeq</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Fiskeq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-195</guid>
		<description>William;
  It doesn't take all that much creativity to find other ways to customize your electrical usage, but it will sometimes require people to change some of the 'convenience driven' expectations that have been the rule in this age of cheap abundant energy.  Like Geoff, I'm one who suspects we've spent down the majority of that precious Trust Fund.

  A lot of energy is used for cooking, and if people had the chance to save on their electric bill by doing so, they could cook foods overnight, baking or slow-cooking like crockpots, or programmable ovens/microwaves.   Refrigerators could be designed with storage tanks for compressed refrigerant- sounds excessive, but then, grid prices are still pretty reasonable.  Also with Home Heating, systems like Radiant Floors or Trombe-walls can let you use the cheap Predawn power to preheat your thermal mass.  

  Charging Electric Cars, Scooters and Bikes can of course be pretty flexible draws on your Utility Service, and could be built to vary the charging rate dependent on constant price signals.  This would be a form of storage that could use Nighttime Power, Midday Power when the owner is at work.. (If we were smart enough to insulate the hot climates out of their massive A/C Dependency), and Fall and Spring times.. when we do actually still use power, and would be happy if it were largely supplanted by wind.

  Finally, wind is only 'completely unpredictable' when you don't pay attention to the patterns.  There is variability, but also recurring patterns.   Beyond that, we have a couple of forms of storage that could be built up to handle surplus wind,  Pumped Hydro, Pumped Air.. and the possibility to use SmartGrid EV's and other growing battery options for storage as well.

  Some engineers are the type to say 'It can't be done'.. but I am left to wonder if they're really saying  'I just don't want to do it, it's too hard.'   It will be hard, and it will be expensive.. but I think the alternatives will only be worse.

Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William;<br />
  It doesn&#8217;t take all that much creativity to find other ways to customize your electrical usage, but it will sometimes require people to change some of the &#8216;convenience driven&#8217; expectations that have been the rule in this age of cheap abundant energy.  Like Geoff, I&#8217;m one who suspects we&#8217;ve spent down the majority of that precious Trust Fund.</p>
<p>  A lot of energy is used for cooking, and if people had the chance to save on their electric bill by doing so, they could cook foods overnight, baking or slow-cooking like crockpots, or programmable ovens/microwaves.   Refrigerators could be designed with storage tanks for compressed refrigerant- sounds excessive, but then, grid prices are still pretty reasonable.  Also with Home Heating, systems like Radiant Floors or Trombe-walls can let you use the cheap Predawn power to preheat your thermal mass.  </p>
<p>  Charging Electric Cars, Scooters and Bikes can of course be pretty flexible draws on your Utility Service, and could be built to vary the charging rate dependent on constant price signals.  This would be a form of storage that could use Nighttime Power, Midday Power when the owner is at work.. (If we were smart enough to insulate the hot climates out of their massive A/C Dependency), and Fall and Spring times.. when we do actually still use power, and would be happy if it were largely supplanted by wind.</p>
<p>  Finally, wind is only &#8216;completely unpredictable&#8217; when you don&#8217;t pay attention to the patterns.  There is variability, but also recurring patterns.   Beyond that, we have a couple of forms of storage that could be built up to handle surplus wind,  Pumped Hydro, Pumped Air.. and the possibility to use SmartGrid EV&#8217;s and other growing battery options for storage as well.</p>
<p>  Some engineers are the type to say &#8216;It can&#8217;t be done&#8217;.. but I am left to wonder if they&#8217;re really saying  &#8216;I just don&#8217;t want to do it, it&#8217;s too hard.&#8217;   It will be hard, and it will be expensive.. but I think the alternatives will only be worse.</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>By: JerseyGeoff</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>JerseyGeoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-189</guid>
		<description>While I agree with some of your skepticism on the overall impacts- I think you discount too much the consumption reduction that such items as real time/peak pricing thru smart meters accomplish. As energy costs rise, the tangible feedback that such meters and pricing provide will ingrain thrift behavior into what has been up to now mindless consumption.
And for those who find it is too much trouble to delay starting the washer until 9 pm- then they will pay for it- dearly. Todays power consumption growth is arising from new large flat screen tvs and leaps in home pc capabilities plus increases in usage time per person- can you imagine a future when consumers may actually look at the 'energyguide' on the appliance before purchasing? With the various flexibilities/ incentives/disencentives the smart grid will provide- i'd expect  this will provide a needed feedback to slowing then stopping energy consumption. And you did not mention the reality of peak oil and the strong possibility of curtailment of coal consumption due GHG issues--30 years in the future we will forced to consume much much less electricity per person  whether we like it or not- and the only way to get there short of imposed rationing will be thru development of realtime feedback.
It's not even clear that this will do it, in which case smart grid will help maximize sharing between regions and producers not to mention encouraging more local smaller scale alternative energy sources eg microturbines in buildings/dump or ag waste methane etc.  
Let's not find ourselves in a situation like Pakistan with the lights out 6 hours per day.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with some of your skepticism on the overall impacts- I think you discount too much the consumption reduction that such items as real time/peak pricing thru smart meters accomplish. As energy costs rise, the tangible feedback that such meters and pricing provide will ingrain thrift behavior into what has been up to now mindless consumption.<br />
And for those who find it is too much trouble to delay starting the washer until 9 pm- then they will pay for it- dearly. Todays power consumption growth is arising from new large flat screen tvs and leaps in home pc capabilities plus increases in usage time per person- can you imagine a future when consumers may actually look at the &#8216;energyguide&#8217; on the appliance before purchasing? With the various flexibilities/ incentives/disencentives the smart grid will provide- i&#8217;d expect  this will provide a needed feedback to slowing then stopping energy consumption. And you did not mention the reality of peak oil and the strong possibility of curtailment of coal consumption due GHG issues&#8211;30 years in the future we will forced to consume much much less electricity per person  whether we like it or not- and the only way to get there short of imposed rationing will be thru development of realtime feedback.<br />
It&#8217;s not even clear that this will do it, in which case smart grid will help maximize sharing between regions and producers not to mention encouraging more local smaller scale alternative energy sources eg microturbines in buildings/dump or ag waste methane etc.<br />
Let&#8217;s not find ourselves in a situation like Pakistan with the lights out 6 hours per day&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: INFRASTRUCTURIST » Blog Archive » The Smart Grid — A Little Stupid?</title>
		<link>http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/02/23/the-smart-grid-a-little-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>INFRASTRUCTURIST » Blog Archive » The Smart Grid — A Little Stupid?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infrastructurist.com/?p=934#comment-187</guid>
		<description>[...] INFRASTRUCTURIST » Blog Archive » The Smart Grid — A Little Stupid? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] INFRASTRUCTURIST » Blog Archive » The Smart Grid — A Little Stupid? [...]</p>
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